Happiness in a burning building: How to date the doomed?

I listened to Minx's Polyweekly podcast this week about how to date someone in a doomed long term relationship check it out. http://polyweekly.com/2012/10/pw-339-dating-someone-in-a-doomed-relationship/

We currently have this issue in the FOC. Mad Science, Prof and I are fine, don't worry, but Prof is interested in someone whose "relationshop" is going bankrupt and about to downsize, maybe. So this is what he is doing:

Being a supportive friend. Allowing her time to make her decisions. Making them cheat proof by limiting alone time. And if it does go pear shaped he is prepared to follow the sanity rule. Wait, until she is again sane and allow her to make a decision based on post grief, rather than rushing into another relationship to avoid it.

The one thing our set up supports is NOT being homewreckers. We don't play unless everyone knows and is cool. There are plenty of people in the pond and so there is no sense in taking someone's traditional family life and screwing it up. This doesn't happen alone of course but to be the fuel for someone else's leaving with some vague promise of a better relationship isn't really fair.

But there is a better question here. If they aren't having sex is it still a poly relationship?

I love many people and have relationships with many people I don't have sex with. 3D Dino and I have a mutually beneficial relationship that is mostly intellectual. Would we have sex if the circumstances were different? Possibly, but I do love him. I find him mentally stimulating and enjoy talking to him, debating with him and being probed by him in a mental way. He makes me ask questions I might otherwise miss myself. I like that it adds value to my life.

Griffin and I have discussed sex and though the thought is delightful I prefer her to remain my best friend. Do I love her? Yes. Is she part of my FOC? Yes. Poly isn't just about sex. It's about having the ability to love more intimately with more people. To us the most intimate thing you can do is listen, accept, and be supportive. You can fuck anyone without feelings or commitment but real love is about mutual respect, interest, and consideration for another person. So is he in a poly relationship with the Engineer? I think so, because he does all those things for her. Are they happy in this burning building? To some extent because there is comfort and satisfaction of mutual support and respect. Will it stay this way? He isn't holding his breath for her to leave her hubby but no situation is static, who knows what it will become.

Blame Canada?

Canada's Safe Spaces program to bust gender preference violence meets opposition

I was reading one of my favorite blogs poly percolations poly in the news when I saw this brightly colored poster. If you will link in and read the article you will see that it is about the safe spaces project in some Canadian schools. I won't really talk much about that, more about the backlash so, go, read the article and come back. I'll be here....

Ok, so my first let me say; "Go Canada!" for presenting positive relationship styles imagery. Second, what the crap is up with people? Do they not know this is going on? I mean poly and LGBTQ are here and have been throughout history why are you getting so bent out of shape about it. Apparently, it's not ok for kids to know that there are lots of different types of family structures. 

If we defined family as a micro-political structure for the nurturing, protection, and provision for all family members which aids personal growth for productive citizenship in the society in which it lives and for the transmitting of useful values and mores. We would be a lot better off.  

Oh, our kids can't know about poly and LGBTQ because they might think that it is ok to roll with your natural feelings. I posit this is because parents don't really talk with kids about these issues and don't really want to, so if we can make society's imagery match our values we don't have to worry so much. It's not going to happen. As long as there is a stigma, often supported by religion, to having gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, queer or poly kids there will be this sort of backlash. 

Gone are the days of tightly closeted lives to maintain the lie that there is only one way to live happily and functionally. Look, if you want to protect kids there must be awareness that all of us have things we like and things we don't like and it's ok to be different. If you don't know ask, if you are confused by your feelings talk to someone who gets it. As long as having LGBTQ or poly kids frightens the crap out of parents this sort of stuff will keep being an issue. You can't legislate morality it must be lived and we now live in a global community in which tolerance is more useful than tight protection of intimate values that actively take away the rights of others. 

We have already proved that what kids see is important in developing their values. At least in America we see so much violence in our media and it has become the go to solution for more people. School shootings, public violence, and rape are all on the rise, why? Because we are powerless and violence makes us feel more powerful. Why are we powerless? Because it isn't ok to be who we are. Wouldn't it make more sense to focus on, and thereby expand what is more useful? 

Romance and Finance

Hey everyone, I am back from a week of timeshare wifery and wanted to say hey. Thanks to one of my readers who pointed out the font was hard to read.  The week away was pretty normal (not near so much bubble time which is good and bad I suppose.) I am now officially addicted to Skyrim. Which brings me to today's topic:  Romance and Finance.

In this economy how can one afford to be poly? I mean if you're dating obviously someone is paying for that and in our case it's no different. We are feeling out our options. This last week I discovered that if I pay for gas, contribute to groceries, and pay for going out a couple of times or entertainment I usually run about 200 bux. Fortunately,  Prof is in driving distance. This is lots cheaper than renting a room for the weekend but still sort of more than our winter budget allows for. So we are looking at ways to prioritize and budget for time together without Mad Science having to pay for my timeshare wifery once a month. This is tricky, if I go back to work I will have to have something flexible that pays enough to support my habits.

For now we have agreed to not do one week a month until finances get more liquid for Prof and I. This was an issue that sort of snuck up on me and until we tried a week of wifery I had no idea how it would play. In the interest of fairness if Prof drives I pay and vice/versa but is it right to ask Mad Science to give me "go away" money?

I don't know what the solution to this will look like just yet but I will keep you posted.

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Monogamy: how it is more than you think.

I recently read an article on monogamy. Here http://www.successfulnonmonogamy.com/the-four-monogamies/

So based on this info how do I see these four types of monogamy and how do they affect my poly life?

Sexual Monogamy: This is the main thing people may think of. You've heard me talk about marriage being a purchase of exclusive body rights this is really sort of implied in the commitment. However, there are a lot of poly people I know that have no penis rules meaning a wife can be with other women but not other men. I also know people who have fluid monogamy where sex is fine as long as there is no exchange of fluids, in some cases, this can even go down to no kissing and no oral sex without a dental dam.

We have a papers only fluid rule. When someone calls for testing like when a new person is brought in we all test out. We have found that everyone is pretty honest and takes the time to respect the other folks in the family by doing a little advance notice. For example, I know that Mad Science is going to get laid Beltane weekend. I mean who can resist Pan right? But in that case he packs prophylactics.

The author also puts out the idea that sex itself be defined as well. Is oral or manual sex still considered sex? What about communal masturbation? Or Anal sex? Phone sex? All ways to give and receive pleasure. We feel that all are sex. So that works out for us. I had a lover whose wife would allow him to please other people as long as he kept his pants on. So everyone has their rules. Knowing those is helpful when contemplating having sex with the attached.

Emotional Monogamy: "It's ok as long as I'm the only one you love."  I could assume that this is Love like I'm married to you and I'm the only person you can feel married to. Honestly, as our author points out there are so many different ways to be emotionally attached to someone else there has to be a clear definition. For us I love my guys equally but in different ways and for different reasons. I have more history with one than the other but I can't say I would definitely choose one over the other. I would have to be in that situation and examine the pros and cons at that time.

Social Monogamy: "Even if we aren't monogamous in other ways, I want people to think we are." To me this doesn't matter so much. I mean I guess if I met with his family I would be socially monogamous in that case. Perhaps in my neighborhood or if I had PTA. For me social monogamy is like showing a unified front for people who don't matter and have no business in our private lives. So it makes sense. I had a monogamous friend who allowed her husband to have sex on business trips out of town but they had what she called a "don't shit in your bed" rule. When he was home, he was to behave as though monogamous.

Activity Monogamy: The secret handshake for the relationship. For example a special vacation spot or restaurant, song, or ritual. Mad Science and I like to camp, Prof doesn't care to camp. Cricket and I loved to go to Hot Springs together it was our thing. My baby sister and I have little inside jokes that other people don't get. It's part of the thing that makes it great to have many loves in my life whether I'm sleeping with them or not.

Judged: What do I say when it happens?

I have been witness to some pretty awful statements about my person. Everything from,
"You know you are going to hell, right?" to "Social rules are in place to weed out deviant freaks like you. You should probably just kill yourself and make it easier on the rest of us." Frequently, what I meet isn't that vicious or hateful and I can't say I am always gracious or kind in return.

For me useful response is much easier when I think of judgmental people in the following ways:

• Human beings are notorious for being resistant to anything that falls outside their understanding and comfort zone.
• Often people speak out of ignorance of the topic at hand. Either they assume my husband is somehow "pimping me out" or that I am somehow a sex addict and that is all poly could possibly be about. 
• People often speak out of their own feelings, emotions, and experiences about how things should be or how they would themselves behave.
• Opinions are only frozen ideas not the identity of the whole person, a person who doesn't realize they can thaw those ideas and change them is then crippled by those limits.
• Opinion is not law. If I take an opinion to heart as a deep rejection there are a couple of reasons why. Either I am uncomfortable with the "rightness" of my choices and feel this person may be correct or that I am under threat of some sort of later violence from this person. I take their ideas about my life and compare them to what my experience says is true. I am very aware that not every behavior is useful in the long term. If I limit love by saying poly is the only way I can live I am just as guilty as those who say that marriage is only one man and one woman at one time. Love has no limits but my expression of love may change based on what is useful at a time.
• Not all people who criticize polyamory are ignorant, wrong, or frightened. They may have tried it and failed for some reason and are concerned about my happiness.
• Everyone is broken, we are all just a bunch of bozo's on the bus who are doing the best we can in the confines of our experience and understanding. No one has the market on what is best for themselves much less anyone else.
• Everyone has a right to their opinion, I can thank them for sharing and take that information and let it eat me or I can deal with it. What I do with it is not their business. I don't get poly points for winning people over. It is not my job to change their minds.
• Also if I can't take the abuse I should not wave my flag. No one agrees with everything I do nor should I expect acceptance even from the most enlightened.

If we are to ever see a change in universal thinking in the direction of tolerance we must be mindful of how tolerant we ourselves are. Bashing bible thumping narrow minded bigots is as intolerant a position. It may be true, but how does telling them that become less violent or more useful to my case? Does it make me angry? Yes. Do I deal with it in my internal life? Yes. Does it give me any right to act out against another human being? No, not unless they are committing an action that takes away my right to choose.

Out or Not why should I care?

Ok, So recently it was coming out day. A lot of people in the LGBTQ community and polyamory community have a hard time with coming out especially to the people close to them. I wanted to talk a little about my experience. When I told my mom I was bisexual she looked me straight in the face and said: "You are not! You are just saying that to hurt me."  She did not speak to me for a while. It sort of hurt my feelings but at the same time those few months of silence were the first time in my life I felt I could breathe. When she died I felt the same way. I was sad but had felt so oppressed by her hold on me and my guilt every time I would say I was done with her that I stayed enmeshed in that relationship. I miss the good times with her but I am sorry that she never accepted me as a whole person. We never had a good relationship anyway, so it would have made no difference if I had not come out. I don't regret telling her.

Mad Science's family handled it rather well when we told them we were poly. We had come to the conclusion that though our sexual proclivities were, in fact, none of their business we felt that because we were living with them at the time and they saw our comings and goings and thought them odd. (i.e. I traveled with male partners without Mad Science and we had sleepovers in our part of the house etc.) That they should out of  respect be told. That is how we approached it. We still have a pretty good relationship with them and now that we are in our own house we don't share much of our lives except when it directly affects them.

Since I have worked for my FIL so long I am consequently out at work. Mad Science didn't see how it was their business at work so he is not.

Prof is out at work and among friends but lives so far from his parents that he didn't really worry about them finding out by accident and for many years said nothing about it. Recently, he told his mom but not the rest of his family. They have kept many small secrets over the years, none of them bad really, just they trusted each individual to speak for themselves and consequently felt his mother could be trusted. We agonized with him over this decision for what seemed many months. She asked many questions and found a place of contentment in it even if she didn't like or fully understand his choice. The rest of his family he did not trust to over react and so they haven't been told.

My kids, who are grown, know and are unaffected by it. As for my siblings they are also unaffected by it as far as I can tell. Prof has been to a family event and no one really asked any inconvenient questions.

I had a friend ask me Out or Not why should I care?

To some extent I agree with this. My sexual conduct is no one's business but it's more than just sex. It's a long term relationship with two people. Two people I love deeply. They are part of the happiness and joy and part of the sorrow and frustration of my life sometimes. Having someone outside the FOC that gets that is important to me. If I need to talk through an issue before I bring it up to the guys, I need to be certain I am seeing it clearly. So there must be someone not involved directly that I can confide in, who will call me on my bullshit when I am about to make waves for less useful reasons. Someone, I can show the commitment ring to or shop for birthday gifts with, who gets how important it is. When we lost the Cricket a few years ago there was no one but the FOC who knew how much I loved him. I wasn't the wife and therefore received no sympathetic looks or comfort for my loss. Moonfaced Girl was there but she had her kids and her own grief to look after. We took point and handled things for them pushing our own grief aside but when the dust had cleared I had no one to turn to while I was trying to cope with the loss. I miss him every day but as a secondary it was hard. So coming out is about being allowed to be all of what we are with the people we love most, who share our history, and our triumphs and sorrows. I can't pretend to be like everyone else when I am not, but that doesn't mean I don't need the same love, kindness and understanding that "normal" people need. So if you are faced with someone who wants to come out, even if you don't agree with their choice, love the person if you can and let them be who they are. They do that for you when you tell them that they are wrong, why can't you do it for them?